21 replies to this topic

[Mcchuggernaut]

I made the revolutionary discovery today that even if your mech has all torso-mounted weapons there is a reason to run with arm lock off: It allows you to torso twist much faster and with less mouse movement. Why the hell this works I have no idea, but it does. I'm also certain I was about the last MWO forum user to find this out, and that most of you already knew about it.

I have some concerns, though. Firstly, it plays hell with my normally very precise aim. Running around in testing grounds with arm lock toggled off and attempting snap shots on specific parts of the practice mechs showed me that my accuracy suffers severely with arm lock off. Secondly, since both parts of the reticle are the same color and have that stretchy line that connects them jangling all around, I often lose track of exactly where my aim-point is.

So any of you "arm lock off" vets have any tips or mouse settings for me that might improve my aim? I recognize a tactical advantage when I see it and want to improve my shielding ability, but if the trade-off is not being able to hit the broad side of a barn...

[Murphy7]

You are also aware that pressing "ALT" will alter your arm lock status right? If set to having the arms locked to torso by default, "ALT" will free arm movement with all the benefits you have described. If you normally go arms free, pressing "ALT" will lock them to the torso briefly for the aiming precision you also describe.

I oscillate between defaulting arm lock on or off depending on which mechs I have been using predominantly. I routinely use the "ALT" button to vary the behavior depending on what I need in that moment.

Edited by Murphy7, 01 June 2016 - 07:19 AM.

[Rayden Wolf]

I think its shift that toggle armlock. ALT is for MASC.

[Mcchuggernaut]

Murphy7, on 01 June 2016 - 07:18 AM, said:

You are also aware that pressing "ALT" will alter your arm lock status right? If set to having the arms locked to torso by default, "ALT" will free arm movement with all the benefits you have described. If you normally go arms free, pressing "ALT" will lock them to the torso briefly for the aiming precision you also describe.

I oscillate between defaulting arm lock on or off depending on which mechs I have been using predominantly. I routinely use the "ALT" button to vary the behavior depending on what I need in that moment.

Yup, I already knew to toggle it on and off situationally, but what I am taking about is returning fire after torso twisting to take damage on your arm. You are getting into the realm of just too many buttons to operate simultaneously if you are toggling it off and back on to twist and then aim and fire on turning back to face the enemy. Also, sometimes you get surprised and need to twist fast, so I would prefer to run with it always on if I can solve the aim issues.

[Murphy7]

That's possible, I rebind a lot of my keys and could have switched that off of default.

Point stands - you have a key available to switch the arm lock status on the fly in game, it's fantastically useful.

[Mcchuggernaut]

Rayden Wolf, on 01 June 2016 - 07:24 AM, said:

I think its shift that toggle armlock. ALT is for MASC.

Depends on how you have your controls set up. I have mine set to left shift.

[Mcchuggernaut]

Speaking of aim, I run with mouse acceleration completely off, smoothing all the way up, and a mouse sensitivity of around 0.36-ish. These mouse settings have given me the best results aim-wise I have been able to get so far. You are still going to have some torso drift when you move your mech's torso quickly to aim, and have to just try and account for that or you will often overshoot your target and drift over it instead of stopping right on it. I don't know if there is anything at all that can be done about that.

Anyone that has tips for enhancing aim through game settings, I would love to hear them!

[totgeboren]

I am pretty sure your torso reticle moves at the same rate no matter if you have your arms locked or not.
What does move a lot faster is your "pilot head" with the arms unlocked, since then you get both the torso twist movement and the arm movement added together.

For example, a WVR-6K with a 300 engine has a torso yaw speed of 109 degrees per second. So with arms locked you will pan left and right at 109 degrees per second. It also has a arm yaw speed of 245 degrees per second, so with arms unlocked you can pan left and right at 354 degrees per second, more than three times as fast!

However, your torso reticle will still move at the same speed.
Even if I have no arm weapons I still play with the arms unlocked. The faster head movement allows me to react quicker and make threat assessments while waiting for my torso aim to move up to where I want it.

[TercieI]

totgeboren, on 02 June 2016 - 07:49 AM, said:

I am pretty sure your torso reticle moves at the same rate no matter if you have your arms locked or not.
What does move a lot faster is your "pilot head" with the arms unlocked, since then you get both the torso twist movement and the arm movement added together.

For example, a WVR-6K with a 300 engine has a torso yaw speed of 109 degrees per second. So with arms locked you will pan left and right at 109 degrees per second. It also has a arm yaw speed of 245 degrees per second, so with arms unlocked you can pan left and right at 354 degrees per second, more than three times as fast!

However, your torso reticle will still move at the same speed.
Even if I have no arm weapons I still play with the arms unlocked. The faster head movement allows me to react quicker and make threat assessments while waiting for my torso aim to move up to where I want it.

This is how i understand it as well.

[Ultimax]

totgeboren, on 02 June 2016 - 07:49 AM, said:

I am pretty sure your torso reticle moves at the same rate no matter if you have your arms locked or not.
What does move a lot faster is your "pilot head" with the arms unlocked, since then you get both the torso twist movement and the arm movement added together.

For example, a WVR-6K with a 300 engine has a torso yaw speed of 109 degrees per second. So with arms locked you will pan left and right at 109 degrees per second. It also has a arm yaw speed of 245 degrees per second, so with arms unlocked you can pan left and right at 354 degrees per second, more than three times as fast!

However, your torso reticle will still move at the same speed.
Even if I have no arm weapons I still play with the arms unlocked. The faster head movement allows me to react quicker and make threat assessments while waiting for my torso aim to move up to where I want it.

It also means I don't need to move or snap my mouse as far in order to get the level of twist I want.

I can snap fast and easy at 5000 dpi, and the torso follows to where the head went first.

If you have arm lock on it requires more physical movement to twist your torso that far (because it all moves together) - and that's even at my very high dpi setting (I have a separate button to shift DPI down to 450 for aiming).

[thehiddenedge]

I toggle mine on and off constantly while in game. Generally I keep it on for long range trading and turn it off for close up work.
The torso always twists at the same speed, but from my experience it feels like it requires less mouse movement to twist with arm lock off.

[Xenon Codex]

I play with AL on and off depending on mech and loadout. My "trick" is to increase mouse sensitivity when AL is on, and lower it when off. I have a button on my mouse to toggle sensitivities and once dialed in I find little difference in twist agility and aim control.

[Jables McBarty]

totgeboren, on 02 June 2016 - 07:49 AM, said:

I am pretty sure your torso reticle moves at the same rate no matter if you have your arms locked or not.
What does move a lot faster is your "pilot head" with the arms unlocked, since then you get both the torso twist movement and the arm movement added together.

For example, a WVR-6K with a 300 engine has a torso yaw speed of 109 degrees per second. So with arms locked you will pan left and right at 109 degrees per second. It also has a arm yaw speed of 245 degrees per second, so with arms unlocked you can pan left and right at 354 degrees per second, more than three times as fast!

However, your torso reticle will still move at the same speed.
Even if I have no arm weapons I still play with the arms unlocked. The faster head movement allows me to react quicker and make threat assessments while waiting for my torso aim to move up to where I want it.

^This is definitely it.

The trick then is figuring out the difference between headspeed and torso speed.

Xenon Codex, on 02 June 2016 - 09:25 AM, said:

I play with AL on and off depending on mech and loadout. My "trick" is to increase mouse sensitivity when AL is on, and lower it when off. I have a button on my mouse to toggle sensitivities and once dialed in I find little difference in twist agility and aim control.

I've done this too.

Another concept that I've thought of but not yet tried is to get rid of toggle on/of and use the Push to Lock option only to aim. So torso twist with the torso lock off, then when it comes time to aim, hold down the lock button.

Edited by Jables McBarty, 02 June 2016 - 09:57 AM.

[Revis Volek]

totgeboren, on 02 June 2016 - 07:49 AM, said:

I am pretty sure your torso reticle moves at the same rate no matter if you have your arms locked or not.
What does move a lot faster is your "pilot head" with the arms unlocked, since then you get both the torso twist movement and the arm movement added together.

For example, a WVR-6K with a 300 engine has a torso yaw speed of 109 degrees per second. So with arms locked you will pan left and right at 109 degrees per second. It also has a arm yaw speed of 245 degrees per second, so with arms unlocked you can pan left and right at 354 degrees per second, more than three times as fast!

However, your torso reticle will still move at the same speed.
Even if I have no arm weapons I still play with the arms unlocked. The faster head movement allows me to react quicker and make threat assessments while waiting for my torso aim to move up to where I want it.

The torso is loads faster with arms unlocked for me, it also takes less movement, with arms locked i dont have enough mouse pad to twist my torso with them unlocked its snappy and peppy.

[MechWarrior319348]

Hey there, not sure if this has been said or not. It seems like you are aiming faster with arm lock off because of your mouse sensitivity.

The arm reticule moves faster than the torso reticule, so you can get more movement while using less mouse movement.

If you want to keep arm lock on to make it easier to aim your torso weapons, try experimenting with your mouse sensitivity.

[Aresye]

I used to play with arm lock on all the time, but around a year ago I decided to forgo it almost completely.

There are very few situations in which arm lock actually gives you an advantage, and those situations are pretty much confined to holding angles with lots of pinpoint weapons, where you don't have to move your crosshair very far, but want to ensure you're getting the maximum pinpoint you can when the enemy mech pops out.

Arm lock on has a very consistent speed with mouse vs. torso movement. What this means is that it's very hard to have steady aim at longer range while maintaining the ability to defensively twist in time to shield, as any sensitivity high enough to torso twist fast enough will end up being way too sensitive for fine aim. Believe me, I've tried.

Arm lock off has an interesting aspect to it that's similar to mouse acceleration, however it's consistent. The problem with mouse acceleration is that it's unpredictable, however running with arm lock off is more like a "predictable" mouse acceleration. If you want to shield as quickly as possible, you snap your mouse very quickly. If you want fine aim, you move the mouse slowly. With time you can learn the acceleration for the arm crosshair and will be able to train for snapshots just like you would with arm lock on.

If you're wanting to be play more competitively, but want to keep using arm lock, I'd highly suggest a DPI shift for your mouse. That way you can run with a higher sensitivity in game, but have two (I wouldn't suggest more) DPI settings you can swap between on the fly. I run a DPI shift from 2500dpi to 500dpi with 0.25 in-game sensitivity. Arm lock off.

[Mcchuggernaut]

Aresye, on 02 June 2016 - 10:27 AM, said:

If you're wanting to be play more competitively, but want to keep using arm lock, I'd highly suggest a DPI shift for your mouse. That way you can run with a higher sensitivity in game, but have two (I wouldn't suggest more) DPI settings you can swap between on the fly. I run a DPI shift from 2500dpi to 500dpi with 0.25 in-game sensitivity. Arm lock off.

^This is what I was looking for: A solution for fine aim with arm lock off. Seems it might be time to buy a new mouse. Mine is getting a bit worn from years of use anyway.

Thanks for this idea!

Edited by Mcchuggernaut, 02 June 2016 - 10:38 AM.

[Tarogato]

totgeboren, on 02 June 2016 - 07:49 AM, said:

I am pretty sure your torso reticle moves at the same rate no matter if you have your arms locked or not.
What does move a lot faster is your "pilot head" with the arms unlocked, since then you get both the torso twist movement and the arm movement added together.

For example, a WVR-6K with a 300 engine has a torso yaw speed of 109 degrees per second. So with arms locked you will pan left and right at 109 degrees per second. It also has a arm yaw speed of 245 degrees per second, so with arms unlocked you can pan left and right at 354 degrees per second, more than three times as fast!

However, your torso reticle will still move at the same speed.
Even if I have no arm weapons I still play with the arms unlocked. The faster head movement allows me to react quicker and make threat assessments while waiting for my torso aim to move up to where I want it.

No, the torso actually does twist faster with you have arms free. You can test this multiple ways

1- hop in an Urbanmech and time how long it takes for you to complete some number, say 10, of complete 360 rotations. You may need a joystick or other input device in order to rotate continuously - I recommend setting the ingame mouse sensitivity to maximum so that there is no doubt that the mech is twisting as fast as it possibly can. Watch your compass or minimap to confirm the exact time you completed the last rotation. Perform this test once with arms free and then again with arms locked - you will notice that it takes less time to complete 10 rotations with arms free, and it is a rather significant difference.

2- listen to your engine - it makes a whine when you torso twist and the whine is pitched according to the speed of your torso twist. Play around with it and once you get an ear for it, try twisting as fast as possible and comparing arms locked vs. arms free, one of them will be higher pitched because it's actually twisting faster. It's really obvious with a mech like the Griffin.

3- in general, watch your minimap or compass. Because arms-free introduces cockpit panning, it can make it very hard to judge whether or not your mech is actually twisting faster or not, but the minimap and compass are not affected by the camera panning.

---

Note: the difference in speed, though it does exist and must surely be a bug, is rather negligible. The real reason you should have your arms free for torso twisting is that you can torso twist aggressively by simply swiping your mouse - you cannot do this with arms locked as you would have to move your mouse much further to the point that it's rather cumbersome to achieve similar results.

[Aresye]

Mcchuggernaut, on 02 June 2016 - 10:37 AM, said:

^This is what I was looking for: A solution for fine aim with arm lock off. Seems it might be time to buy a new mouse. Mine is getting a bit worn from years of use anyway.

Thanks for this idea!

I use the SteelSeries Rival now, but for most of my MWO career I used the Razor Death Adder. Both are great, however they don't have many buttons, so if you play RPGs or other games where you need really quick macros on the mouse, it might not be the best.

If you watch this video closely, you'll see my crosshair almost appears to "lock" onto the target once I get it over an enemy mech, yet I can still twist pretty quickly in defense after I get off the shot:


I use my mouse wheel for my DPI shift. I use 2500dpi to move the crosshair over the target, flip my mouse wheel down to instantly change to 500dpi, hold my crosshair on target for the full beam duration, flip my mouse wheel up to instantly change back to 2500dpi, and twist to shield incoming fire.

Takes some practice getting used to, but it's totally worth it.

[Cupid and Psyche _]

Mcchuggernaut, on 01 June 2016 - 07:26 AM, said:

Yup, I already knew to toggle it on and off situationally, but what I am taking about is returning fire after torso twisting to take damage on your arm. You are getting into the realm of just too many buttons to operate simultaneously if you are toggling it off and back on to twist and then aim and fire on turning back to face the enemy. Also, sometimes you get surprised and need to twist fast, so I would prefer to run with it always on if I can solve the aim issues.

You can make it into a habit, if you really want to. I know high level players who both defend using arm lock and are vehemently opposed to it.
Personally, it's a situational matter.
When I was doing drops with CSJx, the leader told me to always leave arm lock on because it helps with aiming. Really, the best situation to have arm locked disengaged is if you are in a brawling type scenario, but with anything above 350 meters, it can be a disadvantage.
I prefer armlock at times, but I generally pilot faster moving 'mechs. However, with 'mechs that have also torso mounted weapons, I leave armlock off if I'm in CQB.